General lockdown and COVID-19 discussion

00pump, I completely agree.

I don't know what the best method is to handle a pandemic and I'm only giving my opinion on that. I do think that an extended lockdown will do far more harm than good.

admin wrote: 00pump, I completely agree.

I don't know what the best method is to handle a pandemic and I'm only giving my opinion on that. I do think that an extended lockdown will do far more harm than good.

Let's just hope it doesn't get to that, but as you said I am not qualified to answer how to handle a pandemic and hope the measures they have in place will work and this all comes to an end soon. Interesting times..

In my opinion we test way to little every day

Estimated 3500 a day

This should be closer to 20 to 30 000 tests daily

A day after lock down the numbers dropped. I call BS

They not disclosing enough

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vladtheimpaler wrote: Admin if i have it correct. The government did make provision for the to go to soup kitchens and kept a budget for it. Im furious because itwasnt implemented. But if i am mistaken they have my sympathies.

not to contradict you here; I get the updated Disaster Regs daily; ironically, one of the first prohibitions in the Dept Social Devpmnt Regs is prohibiting the use of 'drop-in' centers, which were basically soup kitchens for the poorest...All criminal & civil cases suspended too.. interesting times

mack wrote: All criminal & civil cases suspended too.. interesting times

Crazy, we're officially in the "Twilight Zone".

paratus.info/2020/04/10/lockdown-murdering-our-rights

admin wrote: paratus.info/2020/04/10/lockdown-murdering-our-rights

Admin do you have any alternatives you think could work in this country?

My other ideas I believe could work, if not better, the same as "current efforts". However we must remember what country we are in. I seriously hope townships are locked - no one in; no one out.

Other than that what can we really expect? I do not know what I can expect this government to do. A part of me is glad they did not deny it and try carry on, but at the same time what damages are we doing.

All that money they spoke about yesterday is a load of bullshit. You cannot support poverty as well as small business in this country - they have to choose. This government has failed to help anyone for decades and now they want to try support everyone? It cannot work. I fucking hope small businesses are supported for the sake of the people in this country. But it is all politics and it comes at the peril of hardworking people. I am pissed off man.

MPhilosopher wrote: Admin do you have any alternatives you think could work in this country?

Alternatives to what? Destruction of our rights?

admin wrote:

MPhilosopher wrote: Admin do you have any alternatives you think could work in this country?

Alternatives to what? Destruction of our rights?

Hahaa, things are going to get messy.

admin wrote:

MPhilosopher wrote: Admin do you have any alternatives you think could work in this country?

Alternatives to what? Destruction of our rights?

I believe we have to separate current measures as they have a specific intention.
As far as I am aware, our rights are not overwritten in legislation at times of emergency (as at least 1 European country has formally written in the law).

Measure had to be taken and a lockdown of sorts is here to save lives.
I have debated with people that are against the lockdown abroad. This is a time where we have to take into account this is to save human lives.

What rights do you feel are taken away?
Are the above limitations intended to save lives or not?

I don't fully understand your concerns. Are you looking at it from the view of your survival and situation or do you feel this is some power play and the govt is trying to oppress you?

My question is: What can't you justfy?

Haha, it will be a complete waste of time trying to discuss anything with you. If anyone else asked those questions I would have answered, but I know you based on your history on this forum and I'm far too wise to fall into a troll's trap.

You know, at the end of the day, i think there are arguments both for and against that make sense. I dont think there is a right or wrong answer, i believe, on an individual basis based on thier specific situation, either or is correct for that specific person...

Not here to troll, Admin.

@Wayne: I agree BUT my concern is we are running blindly. We do not know what works as this is unprecedented.

I disagree with the individual basis comment solely because IF this works, EVERYONE needs to cooperate. That means a single group of people messing around outside and being careless is fucking erroneous and unacceptable.

Now the issue of people without savings... the government will fail them. I understand that perspective and that is where the lockdown is failing people. SA cannot afford the same stakes as European countries so I am also concerned, but in the same breath, what else could the govt have done...

We can't just do nothing, I can't agree with that.

MPhilosopher wrote: Not here to troll, Admin.

Let me answer you anyway, but I've noticed your "enticement tricks" in prior discussions on the forum and for a new member you are deliberately causing arguments on the forum way too often for my liking.

MPhilosopher wrote: I have debated with people that are against the lockdown abroad. This is a time where we have to take into account this is to save human lives.

It still has to be proven that a lockdown actually saves lives, we'll see in a few months... but also expect every country that imposed a lockdown to justify their decision even if that means they have to spew out more fake news, biased "studies" or manipulated statistics.

MPhilosopher wrote: What rights do you feel are taken away?

Here's a few I can think of now, but we have 2-3 lawyers active on the forum as regular members and I'm sure they can give much better insights than I can... perhaps I'm wrong with some or perhaps they are aware of others I've missed.

• SANDF and SAPS is punishing individuals who they believe are breaking the lockdown rules by forcing them to do exercises, or by assaulting or killing them. One can only be punished if you have been convicted of a crime by an independent judge or magistrate.
• Some of the regulations are unnecessarily inflexible and do not provide for legally required exceptions, especially the regulations that ban the movement of people.
• Authorising the use of location-based data, such as that generated by cellular phones, to assist with tracking the spread of Covid-19 and this will have far reaching privacy implications going forward.
• Arresting people for spreading false news or false statements prejudicial to the state... who decides what is false and what is not. Perhaps they view this post as false?
• Deciding which businesses receive government support based on race.
• Then there is also the two doctors forced into quarantine at a medical facility in Limpopo. They could have self-quarantined at home. What happens if you or a loved one tests positive... will they also put you into a box and transport you to some "concentration camp" or weld your door shut like they did in China.

MPhilosopher wrote: Are the above limitations intended to save lives or not?

That's their excuse, but if that is true and if we get our rights back after the lockdown is yet to be determined.

MPhilosopher wrote: I don't fully understand your concerns. Are you looking at it from the view of your survival and situation or do you feel this is some power play and the govt is trying to oppress you?

I can't really blame you for not understanding, you are just a kid. I find it interesting that you suddenly from this point onwards turned the spotlight onto me instead of viewing this as a problem all of us face together. It's because of this that I refused to answer you initially.

MPhilosopher wrote: My question is: What can't you justfy?

Everything above.

Fair enough you raise some valid concerns.
The intemperate incidents of police on people is not a large % of interactions and I do not think at this stage we are in a police state... that is something I agree we must avoid.

However, people have to stay home. It is something that needs to be enforced.
There is a lack of data to argue there is a formal approach, however we can't sit back and to be honest there are more elegant solutions.

I am just very curious what else South Africans expected. These are mostly logical concerns.
We can look at statistics out of Germany for a pretty good idea how this virus moves etc, and yes I am not convinced this lockdown changes anything.

I think the biggest issue is we are in Africa and a lot of people will simply resist this past a point. The 2 week extension is damaging. the govt can't help everyone financially but also cannot let the health system get overrun.

I agree with your points on privacy and business even though I have expected all of this from the start. There are more elegant solution but again, can we expect South Africa to offer a better solution than Europe? For the moment they're just throwing shit and seeing what sticks.
I think a debate about a more elegant lockdown strategy is valid.


But in the same breath, I have loved ones and our country has people at risk. We cannot rely on herd immunity based on close to 100% of people contracting it.

I’ll give the gist of the message - can’t say too much as I am a virologist and you never know what might get you into trouble.

Firstly, to address the issue of continuing steroid use at the current time, I see NO valid reason as to why a doctor would advise one to stop - yes it may be immunosuppressive initially to some people but one of the reasons steroids were created was to assist people with immune deficiencies as well as muscle wasting disorders. The only steroids which should be used sparingly during this time are CORTICOSTEROIDS which suppress the immune system. Dianabol and Anavar for example has been used to treat people with HIV/AIDS, anaemia etc and stop them from wasting away. Most doctors (99%) are clueless when it comes to steroid usage and protocols used by (us) the responsible users and tend to err on the side of caution and advise everyone to never use steroids. Do you know that doctors are not taught about steroids in med school. Go and ask your doctor about tren or equi and see what he says. So IMHO and I
am not advocating the use of steroids but Covid-19’s main cause of death is related to depleting oxygen levels in the body and most steroids are able to counter this by increasing RBC and thereby providing more oxygen to the body. I’ll stop there with that question.
In short, yes some steroids may be immunosuppressive initially and cause ‘test flu’ etc but after 2 weeks the immune system is usually stronger. Again we only really have anecdotal evidence, broscience and SOME scientific studies but in responsible doses steroids probably do more good than harm.

Secondly, the doctors have NO conclusive protocol on how to treat this NOVEL virus.
(Read between the lines here) - they are treating it as they would a normal flu but this is not a normal flu, doctors have been told not to say too much about this but the number of people who have contracted it after recovery is cause for concern.

I’ll finish of with this: don’t start a cycle now, for obvious reasons. If you are already on a course and can train then continue moderately, over training can certainly suppress the immune system.
And for everyone in general: drink a lot of water, take a multivitamin, extra Vitamin C (don’t go too crazy as too much Vit C has bad sides), if you want an extra boost then take Green Power by The Real Thing, as well as their Mushroom supplement, I can’t remember the name but I believe it works! Any questions ask here don’t DM me. Thanks. Hope this helps...
(Also if you can afford it then add HGH)

Thanks for the reply.

If you have anything to share regarding the virus that is not already in the public domain please do so.

Ah sorry admin, everything that there is to know is on the internet if you look deep enough, Reddit etc etc so I’m afraid there’s probably nothing I can add that’s not already available to the public somewhere on the information highway that is the internet. However with so many different theories out there it is increasingly difficult to differentiate between fact and fiction. Hope this helped someone!

Some interesting points were raised above but I would like to lean towards admin in this regard for the following reason.

The drop in corona cases reported after the lock down cannot be due to the lock down as it is way to early to see its effect, so the drop can possibly be attributed to the social distancing rules put into place on the 18th. Time frames match very nicely. We were encouraged to work from home, sanitise and schools were closed.

If that is the case the lock down may have been completely unnecessary and we would have flattened the curve more than adequately with the processes that were in place before the lock down without the destructive effects of lock down.

The real enemy in all of this is china!

lobo wrote: The real enemy in all of this is china!

Chill.
Chinese govt? Sure, the inherent flaws should be exposed and condemned.

Chinese people and asians in general will likely suffer (as if they don't enough), no need to propagate that.

Philosopher I dont think you comprehending the ramifications of all this because some chink has to eat a virus riddled animal. The worlds too dependent on china we need a shift in that as far as Im concerned am in the uk at the moment bodies piling up this side. Dont take my word for it go watch some of the videos on valuetainment. I'll propagate what I feel like within the rules of the forum.

lobo wrote: The worlds too dependent on china we need a shift in that as far as Im concerned am in the uk at the moment bodies piling up this side. Dont take my word for it go watch some of the videos on valuetainment. I'll propagate what I feel like within the rules of the forum.

I think there will be a strong anti-china sentiment going forward and many developed countries will push to lessen their reliance on China in the years to come... something that Trump has been trying with the US since he became president.

lobo wrote: Philosopher I dont think you comprehending the ramifications of all this because some chink has to eat a virus riddled animal. The worlds too dependent on china we need a shift in that as far as Im concerned am in the uk at the moment bodies piling up this side. Dont take my word for it go watch some of the videos on valuetainment. I'll propagate what I feel like within the rules of the forum.

I comprehend the ramifications and have been following since the cases popped up in Wuhan alone. Don't think China will be unaffected, they have a lot to lose with this situation. I am pissed off with bodies like the WHO, who have the responsibility to protect the public and failed due to hesitance and late random decisions. Chinese govt cannot go unpunished. Communism/socialism cannot work. Let's fucking hope some common sense becomes widespread about this situation.