General lockdown and COVID-19 discussion

According to my research that ive done nobody knows who patient 0 is. So there is no telling if it actually was a bat.

According to most scientists/specialists in this field, this is NOT a man-made virus as some have theorised. It is structurally very similar to other coronaviruses found in pangolins and bats. The question is how did transmission occur from animal to human and like swine flu, it was most likely via ingestion of an infected animal, unfortunately we do do not know for certain who patient zero (the index patient) was and whether the virus mutated whilst it was in a human body or whether it was already in its current form. Same story as HIV, where did it come from? - we don’t know for sure but most have theorised that it was because of people having sex with monkeys etc as bizarre as that is - there some crazy people/cultures in the world guys. Some bang monkeys, some eat bats.

The lockdown unfortunately was the safest course of action and I’d put money on another extension with easing of SOME restrictions.
Government has done the right thing. May I ask why some of you guys think it was a poor decision? Cyril had a tough choice - let the economy die or let the people die...

Jonny wrote: According to most scientists/specialists in this field, this is NOT a man-made virus as some have theorised. It is structurally very similar to other coronaviruses found in pangolins and bats. The question is how did transmission occur from animal to human and like swine flu, it was most likely via ingestion of an infected animal, unfortunately we do do not know for certain who patient zero (the index patient) was and whether the virus mutated whilst it was in a human body or whether it was already in its current form. Same story as HIV, where did it come from? - we don’t know for sure but most have theorised that it was because of people having sex with monkeys etc as bizarre as that is - there some crazy people/cultures in the world guys. Some bang monkeys, some eat bats.

The lockdown unfortunately was the safest course of action and I’d put money on another extension with easing of SOME restrictions.
Government has done the right thing. May I ask why some of you guys think it was a poor decision? Cyril had a tough choice - let the economy die or let the people die...

This will affect the livelihoods of many individuals permanently. So that is an obvious reason many are concerned. I do not buy into the obstruction in human rights (Although it is a fair concern and could arise).


From a statistical point of view we cannot say if this lockdown helps, of course we hope it does.
Does SA have the power to help all citizens... and even if it does, will they help the correct people? I would bet not.

We are following first world decisions without accounting for variables that could arise in a 3rd world country. Here in CT I see too many people not following basic lockdown procedures and I think a further lockdown extension would be futile and extremely damaging.

Considering majority of people (even in the 1st world) live paycheck to paycheck, they can't extend it without it blowing up in their faces.

My issue is, from the start of lockdown, the govt did not think ahead... we will be on lockdown till August and possibly later should they keep using no forward thinking.

I personally do not get the infringement of rights argument. This lockdown had to be done. I don't see another solution that would have worked in SA.

The logic is economy vs people but we are shooting in the dark here with any procedure.

The full lock down is ineffective in our country for the following reasons in my opinion.

1. The townships that are most vulnerable are not able to go into lock down. It is not physically possible. Many of the people there do not have electricity, so no fridge or bulk storage of food. There are multiple trips per day to get something to eat. They do not have toilets and rely on shared infrastructure, the same with water. My gardener walks to a shared solar powered hut to charge his phone every day. How many people is he exposed to every day as a result.

2. The devastation and death it will result in will possibly cause more deaths than the corona virus will (Davie Roodt).

3. The lasting economic impact of the full lock down will be felt for years. It is possible an emerging economy may never recover from this.

If we consider my thoughts on social distancing above which has already shown to be very effective in South Africa, and the positive effect social distancing without any form of lock down has had on Sweden (the only country to not enforce full lock down) there is a viable, and much better option available. A panicked response to a pandemic is more damaging that a well thought out response. I don't think our response is well thought out at all considering our social circumstances.

I am tempted to respond with some anecdotes of what my clients are doing to me financially using the full lock down as excuse. My pipeline has been decimated, and I am someone in a good financial position. What about all the other businesses out there? Most will never recover, the margins are just way too small.

vojago wrote: The full lock down is ineffective in our country for the following reasons in my opinion.

1. The townships that are most vulnerable are not able to go into lock down. It is not physically possible. Many of the people there do not have electricity, so no fridge or bulk storage of food. There are multiple trips per day to get something to eat. They do not have toilets and rely on shared infrastructure, the same with water. My gardener walks to a shared solar powered hut to charge his phone every day. How many people is he exposed to every day as a result.

2. The devastation and death it will result in will possibly cause more deaths than the corona virus will (Davie Roodt).

3. The lasting economic impact of the full lock down will be felt for years. It is possible an emerging economy may never recover from this.

If we consider my thoughts on social distancing above which has already shown to be very effective in South Africa, and the positive effect social distancing without any form of lock down has had on Sweden (the only country to not enforce full lock down) there is a viable, and much better option available. A panicked response to a pandemic is more damaging that a well thought out response. I don't think our response is well thought out at all considering our social circumstances.

I am tempted to respond with some anecdotes of what my clients are doing to me financially using the full lock down as excuse. My pipeline has been decimated, and I am someone in a good financial position. What about all the other businesses out there? Most will never recover, the margins are just way too small.

I agree 100%

Jonny wrote: Cyril had a tough choice - let the economy die or let the people die...

In both cases people will die, but more will die from a collapsed economy.

MPhilosopher wrote: The logic is economy vs people but we are shooting in the dark here with any procedure.

The reason i dont agree, to be frank, is the mentality of people in the country. Bottom line, lots, if not most dont have the capacity to understand what social distancing is! When i go to grocery store, i have to choose my times very carefully or i will have ppl right up my asshole! Same when i was at work, fuckers still come up to your face even though you back peddle to get away from them. The sad truth is alot of ppl in this country need protection from themselves! If you well to do and have the means to avoid such scenarios, good and dandy, but for the majority of ppl like me "on the ground" you play "the walking dead"

Note, this is from my personal experiences...

Wayne wrote: The reason i dont agree, to be frank, is the mentality of people in the country.

What are you not agreeing with? I can't tell if you are for or against the lockdown.

Wayne wrote: The sad truth is alot of ppl in this country need protection from themselves!

Eish, no I don't think so... if that was indeed the case should they be allowed to propagate or vote, because isn't that more dangerous.

Wayne wrote: If you well to do and have the means to avoid such scenarios, good and dandy, but for the majority of ppl like me "on the ground" you play "the walking dead"

Getting Covid-19 is not a death sentence. It won't go away and it will just become another seasonal "flu" as soon as the virus had a chance to infect enough people and slows down due to herd immunity. We'll all get it sooner or later.

This is not some unprecedented event that will cause the extinction of the human race, it's just a new virus like the millions that came before it.

admin wrote:

Wayne wrote: The reason i dont agree, to be frank, is the mentality of people in the country.

What are you not agreeing with? I can't tell if you are for or against the lockdown.

Wayne wrote: The sad truth is alot of ppl in this country need protection from themselves!

Eish, no I don't think so... if that was indeed the case should they be allowed to propagate, because isn't that more dangerous.

Wayne wrote: If you well to do and have the means to avoid such scenarios, good and dandy, but for the majority of ppl like me "on the ground" you play "the walking dead"

Getting Covid-19 is not a death sentence. It won't go away and it will just become another seasonal "flu" as soon as the virus had a chance to infect enough people and slows down due to herd immunity. We'll all get it sooner or later.

This is not some unprecedented event that will cause the extinction of the human race, it's just a new virus like the millions that came before it.

I am for the lockdown or at the very least, if implementing social distancing, then implement by force.

When i say ppl dont have the capacity, let me give you this example, there is a really good guy that works with me. A few weeks back he, along with others said they want zuma back, with him there was no service delivery issues, loadshedding n stuff like how it is with Cyril. and they were adamant. It took me half a day, trying to explain, we are here cos zuma raped the country and cyril needs to clean the mess. Had to use an example of a drug addict, person can use drugs n look fine when they start, but 6 months down the line, you notice the how they looked fucked up...only then did he somewhat understand. And to me, this is a guy that you can speak to whereas alot of others are dead set in thier ways/belief of lies.

I do understand that its not a death sentence, but like i said before, bp, diabetic, my family and i fall into the vulnerable category. And when i go out, people literally dont keep to social distancing, they right up in your space...i have to duck and dodge. They don't understand or i believe have the capacity to understand. If we not in a lockdown, ppl will run rampant and be back to the way things were, they wont social distance, they wont adhere to cleanliness. At work, i have idiots come to my desk, cough in my face...

I have no faith in ppl doing the right thing (majority of ppl)

I understand where you coming from, but that works if ppl are like minded and have the ability to understand and do what is needed, unfortunately i dont believe most in SA do...

I hope you get my point of view and what i am trying to say...

NB. I know ppl that have died from this, my landlords mum last week, a shop owner a few doors from me...so...its kinda close to home..

I agree that there's allot of stupid people out there, that's proven every election year. However, I would prefer government to have as little decision making power as possible.

I feel sorry for the people affected by this pandemic. We should not forget that people do not live forever and we can't expect them to. There's many things that kill far more people daily and I'm more likely to die from a farm attack than a silly virus anyway. Point I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t be overreacting and doing more harm than the virus ever could.

MORE people will die from a (an already) collapsed economy than a global pandemic? Really? I respectfully disagree. IF government steps in and provides economic relief as promised then people will not die from hunger.
Fortunately our lower LSM have survived recessions without deaths being an issue at all, protect them from this deadly disease and they will be okay. I really don’t see your logic here admin.
SA has been lauded globally for what we’ve done to ‘control’ this pandemic. For once the USA wishes they had done what we had, have you seen their numbers? Per capita even.

Don’t even get me started on what it would do to our already broken public health care system. If European first world countries cannot cope, then we have little to no chance and then even the higher LSM will be in big trouble.

Yes, more people die from collapsed economies. Without a functioning economy there is no health system anyway.

Covid-19 will kill many, but Covid-19 + No economy will kill many more and for far longer.

Wayne wrote: The reason i dont agree, to be frank, is the mentality of people in the country. Bottom line, lots, if not most dont have the capacity to understand what social distancing is! When i go to grocery store, i have to choose my times very carefully or i will have ppl right up my asshole! Same when i was at work, fuckers still come up to your face even though you back peddle to get away from them. The sad truth is alot of ppl in this country need protection from themselves! If you well to do and have the means to avoid such scenarios, good and dandy, but for the majority of ppl like me "on the ground" you play "the walking dead"

Note, this is from my personal experiences...

Lmfao this was spot on.

Again, this is factually incorrect. Do we have a functioning economy at the moment? No.
Do we have a working healthcare system? Yes.
If the labour force diminishes (dies - especially skilled labour) then the economy will be in a much worse position. Remember the first person diagnosed with Covid-19 in SA was a wealthy white male, not someone living in an informal settlement.
If government makes good on their promises (aren’t there elections soon?) then the poor will survive the economic effects of the crisis, unfortunately I cannot say the same about them surviving the virus.

Covid-19 *unchecked* will kill many.

Jonny wrote: Again, this is factually incorrect. Do we have a functioning economy at the moment? No.

Yes we still do, it's only week 3 since the lockdown was implemented so gov still has money from when tax payers earned an income. To keep the economy functional they have to relax certain restrictions so that businesses can function while maintaining a way to slow the spread of the virus. They don't have to stop social distancing, but they need to allow businesses to function in some form and there are political parties making proposals in this regard...

Jonny wrote: Do we have a working healthcare system? Yes.

Yes, still working... but you need an economy to keep it working... unless you want China to come to the rescue...

Jonny wrote: If the labour force diminishes (dies - especially skilled labour) then the economy will be in a much worse position.

Wrong. Only 1-2% will actually die from Covid-19... a problem but not unrecoverable. Imagine what happens when almost everybody is jobless due to a collapsed economy... you can have all the skills in the world but without a job to generate an income you are just another mouth to feed when there is not enough food.

Jonny wrote: Remember the first person diagnosed with Covid-19 in SA was a wealthy white male, not someone living in an informal settlement.

So what?

Jonny wrote: If government makes good on their promises (aren’t there elections soon?) then the poor will survive the economic effects of the crisis, unfortunately I cannot say the same about them surviving the virus.

You are completely delusional. Everybody will be poor and the poor will be even poorer so they will be more reliant on gov grants, which the gov can't pay due to the collapsed economy. Even if they could pay the grants you won’t be able to buy anything because the money will be worthless. Perhaps educate yourself in some history lessons, you can start with Argentina and Zimbabwe if you really need reminding what a collapsed economy does.

Also, expect gov to help their "voting base" only... hopefully you fall in that category.

Again, a collapsed economy will kill more people, it’s a proven fact.

Thanks

And just like that another 3 weeks lockdown at the least for us in the uk...yus I miss the gym and the chics, am looking like a twig...lol

Same here man, losing money, losing muscle. I can’t motivate myself to do these stupid fckng Instagram ‘influencers’ home workouts anymore, I need the iron!!! Was just about to start an expensive Test/Primo/Superdrol/HGH course but that’ll have to wait another 2 months now (maybe - I might just say fck it and go straight into the cycle as soon as I can get back into the gym). Diet has gone to shit, haven’t exercised in a week, I’m a hardgainer so I’m losing fat as well as muscle so I can some abs at least. Feels like I’ll be starting from scratch.
Still think SA govt has done the right thing (for a change).

Something to watch if you are interested in hearing differing opinions... probably not for the lemmings amongst us.

admin wrote: Something to watch if you are interested in hearing differing opinions... probably not for the lemmings amongst us.

I'd like to look into his HIV claims actually, piqued my interest.
However his claims on vaccines are rather dangerous - admin are you against all vaccines?

I also don't see how he can make the claim that vitamins prevent and cure this virus. How can such a claim be made - where is the data or research? Also, Shiva Ayyadurai's claims on someone patenting the virus turned out to be fake news.

Maybe Jonny can weigh in too as he is formally educated as a virologist. I personally don't understand some of Fauci's claims, some were pretty off and he later adjusted them. However, that doesn't mean the opposite extreme is correct.

FYI I am in support of vaccines, however there will be no vaccine in time for this virus... most vaccines are great for humanity though.

Jonny wrote: Same here man, losing money, losing muscle. I can’t motivate myself to do these stupid fckng Instagram ‘influencers’ home workouts anymore, I need the iron!!! Was just about to start an expensive Test/Primo/Superdrol/HGH course but that’ll have to wait another 2 months now (maybe - I might just say fck it and go straight into the cycle as soon as I can get back into the gym). Diet has gone to shit, haven’t exercised in a week, I’m a hardgainer so I’m losing fat as well as muscle so I can some abs at least. Feels like I’ll be starting from scratch.
Still think SA govt has done the right thing (for a change).

Wanted to start my first cycle around this time... tempted to go for it as soon as gyms open but I am also in a state of deep consideration.

MPhilosopher wrote: admin are you against all vaccines?

No, I give my entire family the flu-shot every year, even did so a week before the lockdown. I do think there is some connection between the 3-in-1 Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) Vaccine causing autism in children and that it is better to get those vaccinations individually or at a later age. Vaccines may pose a health risk if they are not subject to proper testing and should a Covid-19 vaccination become available I will probably not get it immediately if I can avoid it.

I posted the videos not because I agree with everything, but rather because I found some points interesting. It will take much more than the opinion of one man to persuade me into believing anything... in fact I rarely believe anyone without coming to my own conclusions but I do like to hear different opinions.

I absolutely distrust the media and very rarely take anything from them as fact... but that's because I know firsthand how they manipulate their stories to change public opinion or generate more money by getting views. I'll rather not discuss my run-in with them, so that's that.

That guy is next level smart. Wow, refreshing to hear someone like him talk.

Interesting opinions here, I agree with most of what you guys say - don’t believe everything you read, especially the mainstream media as admin said but also on the internet, too many Google experts out there.
Carte Blanche this past Sunday was quite informative, and I’ll say it again, the doctors have little to no idea as to how to treat this hence the NEED for lockdown. HOWEVER, before admin bites my head off, I’ll be surprised (and disappointed) if the FULL lockdown is still enforced after 1 May. The government has no other option now but to start easing restrictions after this month, hence the strict rules they’ve put in place now, they deserve credit for dealing with the crisis the way they have. They have no room left after this lockdown so they must enforce it as best they can, no matter how harsh it might seem to us.
Unfortunately I cannot divulge too much about the stats and such things as per my employment contract and I’ve been super busy due to the number of infections etc so apologies for the delayed response.
Again, as has been said before, ~60% of people in SA will get the virus, I’d guess 95% will recover. Vaccine will only be here at the earliest... mid next year.
Just a quick reply, I need to sleep. Any questions HMU here. At the moment NO ONE is an expert on this novel coronavirus so everyone is an expert. Ha ha ha. Will check in later, cheers gents, stay home!