DonkieKong's (it's on) Thread

Carb load

5 hours prior to final workout before carb up consume 25-50g of carbs Small amounts and fat may be added to this meal

2 hours before final workout: Glucose+fructose 25-50g carbs (fruit)

Carb load (48 hours)
8-10g/kg × LBM (1st 24 hours)
C-F-P
70%-15%-15%


5g/kg × LBM ( 2nd 24 hours)
C-F-P
60%-15%-25%

These are estimates. So keep between the boundaries but also experiment and see how your body reacts. That's what I'm gonna do for my carb up.

85kg lean mass x 8 = 680g carbs , so do i need to consume 680g carbs in my 24 hour carb up?

I am following a 2000 cal diet , pyro suggested the 2000 cal diet and it has worked so far he know what he is talking about , 1100 of those total calories are from fats so with the carb up to I eat 1100 cals worth of carbs? And what foods do I use ? Basmati rice ? Oats ? Potatos?

"Assuming full depletion of the involved muscles, the amount of carbohydrate needed during this time period is 8-10 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean body mass (8-10 g/kg). With 36 hours of carb-loading, roughly 150% compensation can occur, reaching levels of 150-160 mmol/kg of muscle glycogen"

So I take 8g X 85kg = 680g carbs ÷ 36 hours = 340g carbs per day for 2 days

"Intake of greater than 50 grams of carbohydrate does not appear to increase the rate of glycogen synthesis. Over 24 hours, at 50 grams per 2 hours, this yields 600 grams of carbohydrates total to maximize glycogen resynthesis. These values are for a 154 pound (70 kilogram) person."

If I understand this it says I have to eat every 2 hours and no more than 50g carbs per meal?

"The type of carbohydrate consumed during a carb-up can affect the rate at which glycogen is resynthesized. During the first 24 hours, when enzyme activity is at it’s highest, it appears that the consumption of high glycemic index (GI) foods such as simple sugars promote higher levels of glycogen resynthesis compared to lower GI foods like starches (5,7,. Glycogen resynthesis during the second 24 hours has not been studied as extensively. It appears that the consumption of lower GI carbs (starches, vegetables) promotes higher overall levels of glycogen resynthesis while avoiding fat gain by keeping insulin levels more stable (9). Most individual’s find that their regain of bodyfat, as well as retention of water under the skin, is considerably less if they switch to lower GI carbohydrates during the second 24 hours of carbohydrate loading"

So for the first 24 hours I use dextros , milo cereal , and other high GI foods and the next 24 hours I use low GI foods , basmati rice , oats?

"The carb-up should begin immediately following training. A delay of even 2 hours between the end of training and the start of the carb-up causes glycogen resynthesis to be 47% slower than if carbs are consumed immediately. (10,12). Ideally you should consume a large amount of liquid carbs immediately after training. A good rule of thumb is to consume 1.5 grams of carbs/kg lean body mass, with approximately one half as much protein, immediately after training and then again two hours later. Additionally the consumption of carbohydrates prior to (and even during) the workout prior to your carb-up will lead to higher rates of glycogen resynthesis, most likely as a result of higher insulin levels when the carb-up begins"

So does this mean I start carb loading on monday immediately after my workout?


"Possibly the biggest fear many individuals on a ketogenic diet have about the carb-load is the potential to regain body fat due to the high number of calories being consumed (almost double maintenance during the first 24 hours)"

This has me confused , the first 24 hours do I eat for calories or do I eat 680g carbs??

I am really confused , when do I start my carb up , how much calories and how much g of carbs should I eat in my first 24 hours and what tipe of high GI carbs do I need , please just simplify this

Well i found this, cause I think you missed some of the stuff i already answered..

"Assuming full depletion, which requires a variable amount of training depending on the
length of the carb-up, glycogen levels can be refilled to normal within 24 hours, assuming that
carbohydrate consumption is sufficient. With longer or shorter carb-loading periods, muscle
glycogen levels can reach higher or lower levels respectively.

During the initial 24 hours of carb-loading, a carbohydrate intake of 8-10 grams of carbs
per kilogram of lean body mass will refill muscle glycogen to normal levels. Although less well
researched, it appears that a carbohydrate intake of roughly 5 grams/kg lean body mass is
appropriate. While the type of carbohydrate ingested during the first 24 hours of carb-loading is
less critical, it is recommended that lower GI carbs be consumed during the second 24 hours to
avoid fat regain. The addition of other nutrients to the carb-load phase does not appear to affect
glycogen resynthesis rates. However fat intake must be limited somewhat to avoid fat gain."

What to take from this: don't over complicate it. Low or high GI is less critical. If you are training, i'd follow bms' guide lines. Some fructose before training (in the form of fruit), and i would really keep the short chain carbs to the end of the workout to aid in protein synthesis.

"During the first 24 hours of carb-loading, carbohydrate intake should be 10 grams per
kilogram of lean body mass or 4.5 grams of carbs per pound of lean body mass . This will
represent 70% of the total calories consumed. The remaining calories are divided evenly between
fat (15% of total calories) and protein (15% of total calories)."

If you're only doing a 24 hour carb up, do the 70% carbs, 15% fat, and 15% protein. There is NO way you can eat 680g of carbs (over 2400 kcals) in one day and stay in the kcal range you've used. They suggest 5g/kg can work, which i imagine will be better suited to you and your daily kcal right now.

These are all guide lines and you need to adjust it to fit your daily intake, etc.

There is so many sites that say the same stuff, with small twists. Most likely cause it it goal and individual dependent. Personally, I have been eating around 30g carbs a day, and the rest fat and protein. Body fat % is dropping. On a weekend (i've been horrible) and i eat all kinds of carbs. Cake, sweets, low GI, high GI, but i keep my fat low. I'm still losing BF, so maybe it is me, or maybe it is better to not over complicate it.

Simplest thing ever though, stick to your kcal needs for your goal. Synthesis of glycongen differs from one person to the next, and 24 hours may work for you, or it may not be enough time. Give it a go. See what happens. All the information will never be cookie cutter for any person, and you just need to find what works for you.

Oky so what I think you are saying is split my calories 70-15-15?

So 70% of 2200 cals will be = 1540 cals
So 15% of 2200 cals will be = 330 cals

Of the top of my head I know that 330 cals of protein is 2 X 30g whey shakes and 1 tin of tuna

donkiekong wrote: Oky so what I think you are saying is split my calories 70-15-15?

So 70% of 2200 cals will be = 1540 cals
So 15% of 2200 cals will be = 330 cals

Of the top of my head I know that 330 cals of protein is 2 X 30g whey shakes and 1 tin of tuna

Yes. Let us know how it goes.

Oky so I am going to do my carb up on monday , do I start with fructose , sugary fruits like mango and raisins

Do I eat any other carbs before my workout ( 14: 00 workout time ) and then 50g dextros post workout and 50g dextros 45min after post workout

Oky my chosen carbs for this carb up is milo cereal of rice crispies , fruit is going to be mango and raisins and post workout dextros .... Any suggestions or something you guys want me to swap or add ?

"1-2 hours before the final workout, a combination of glucose and fructose is recommended to refill the liver glycogen. 25-50g is a good place to start, and you can add more as needed."

Post workout you can have the other dextrose.

donkiekong wrote: Oky my chosen carbs for this carb up is milo cereal of rice crispies , fruit is going to be mango and raisins and post workout dextros .... Any suggestions or something you guys want me to swap or add ?

Other options: brown rice, sweet potato, potato, squash, apples, melons, strawberries, and oats of course I don't eat Milo and Rice Crispies, so can't comment on them specifically. Mind the milk and the amount of fat in it, per serving.

That just got me dizzy now , so when do I start eating? I wake up @ 5am , do my 40min morning fasted cardio , what do I eat until I do my weight training @ 14:00 ??

I opted for the milo cereal for the purpose of high GI and not for oats and the other stuff that is low GI as the article suggest high GI food for the first 24 hours

I suppose complex carbs?

Haha oky maybe pyro could correct us on this , I'm sure he knows what to do as I'm very confused at the moment of when to eat what , at least now I know how much to eat of what haha

donkiekong wrote: I opted for the milo cereal for the purpose of high GI and not for oats and the other stuff that is low GI as the article suggest high GI food for the first 24 hours

It also said the type is less critical. Look at this:
"Low GI foods can benefit your health and athletic performance. Being that low GI foods are assimilated at a slower rate, they supply a steadier supply of energy. Lower GI foods alleviate hunger, leading to a more controlled appetite. Selecting lower GI carbohydrates will prevent mood swings. Lower GI foods can also result in higher muscle glycogen levels (storing more carbs in the muscle), and less chance of storing the extra glucose as fat. You see elevated insulin levels can turn on your fat storing mechanisms.So, if you are dieting low GI foods are the way to go. If you are going to eat before training, you should pick low glycemic carbohydrates. Low glycemic foods will prevent any premature lowering of blood glucose levels before training, which can lead to fatigue. I don't know about you, but I need to be 100% for every workout, so I can't afford to experience low blood sugar in the middle of my workout causing early fatigue."

This is my reason for suggesting low GI. It will also help you return to Ketosis again more easily after your carb up.

"The type of carbohydrate consumed during a carb-up can affect the rate at which glycogen is resynthesized. During the first 24 hours, when enzyme activity is at it’s highest, it appears that the consumption of high glycemic index (GI) foods such as simple sugars promote higher levels of glycogen resynthesis compared to lower GI foods like starches (5,7,. Glycogen resynthesis during the second 24 hours has not been studied as extensively. It appears that the consumption of lower GI carbs (starches, vegetables) promotes higher overall levels of glycogen resynthesis while avoiding fat gain by keeping insulin levels more stable (9). Most individual’s find that their regain of bodyfat, as well as retention of water under the skin, is considerably less if they switch to lower GI carbohydrates during the second 24 hours of carbohydrate loading"

This is why I was thinking of going with honey , raisins , dextros and milo cereal as all that are high GI foods

donkiekong wrote: "The type of carbohydrate consumed during a carb-up can affect the rate at which glycogen is resynthesized. During the first 24 hours, when enzyme activity is at it’s highest, it appears that the consumption of high glycemic index (GI) foods such as simple sugars promote higher levels of glycogen resynthesis compared to lower GI foods like starches (5,7,. Glycogen resynthesis during the second 24 hours has not been studied as extensively. It appears that the consumption of lower GI carbs (starches, vegetables) promotes higher overall levels of glycogen resynthesis while avoiding fat gain by keeping insulin levels more stable (9). Most individual’s find that their regain of bodyfat, as well as retention of water under the skin, is considerably less if they switch to lower GI carbohydrates during the second 24 hours of carbohydrate loading"

This is why I was thinking of going with honey , raisins , dextros and milo cereal as all that are high GI foods

You're quite set on the high GI, so go with it. Only way to find out is to try.

Oky I see now the benefits of the low GI foods , but personally I don't have a stop point when I step into the weights sections I have endurance for days and days 30sec rest is all I need to max out each and every rep and set , workouts are never a problem

I would just like to know when to start eating , what to eat pre workout , what to eat post workout and when to stop eating

I am really interested in the high GI for some reason , have you read the thread about DJ contest prep?? He use to eat sweets and coco pops and jelly beans when he did a carb up

donkiekong wrote: I am really interested in the high GI for some reason , have you read the thread about DJ contest prep?? He use to eat sweets and coco pops and jelly beans when he did a carb up

Is this pre-competition? If it is, it is not the same as what you are trying to achieve. Before weigh in, competitors will deplete glycogen and shed water pre weigh in so they weigh in lower. After weigh in they will start eating carbs again to fill the muscles up again. This gives them a fuller appearance on stage. Obviously their body mass also goes up again from the carbs. I've never competed so don't ask what carbs they eat... I read DJ's treads ages ago, so i may be off on a tangent here.

Here is a quote out of DJ's contest prep thread

" was on 2 cheat meals a week but have come down to 1 refeed a week of about 1500-2000grams of carbs. Mostly milo cereal. I get at least 2boxes in per refeed. That alone is 640g of carbs. Look forward to some feed back"

As soon as I worked out the needed calories the milo cereal poped into my head

The carb up he did with the milo cereal he was still 8 weeks out of comp , so it was not a re-feed before comp

400g milo cereal + 100g dextros give me 1900 cals and 404g carbs