Pyroclasm's Cycle Suggestion and Cycle Log

Pyro, sadly I can't speculate too much either as I think there's too little info. IMO he should've tested T3 and T4 as well. With that we could've judged a bit better.

I did however find this article on THYROID FUNCTION . Give it a read. Skimming over it i did see this though:

The effects of low iodine intake:

Typically plasma thyroxine (T4) and
3,3',5-tri-iodothyronine (T3) are very low whilst thyrotrophin (TSH) is
extremely high.

That comes with the other effects of hypothyroidism.

You could supplement with iodine as a substrate for T4 and selenium to facilitate conversion to T3.

If you can find Now Foods Thyroid Energy on that side give it a go.

I can get it from Bodybuilding . com

Just started with keto again and want to do some hardcore dieting. Can I take the Thyroxine to get my thyroid good for two months? It's gonna be very depressing dieting but knowing my thyroid is broken.

Hey Pyro!

Here's some interesting causes for your thyroid problems.

Stress is known to be a significant contributor to thyroid dysfunction; this can be environmental stress as well as lesser-considered homeostatic stress such as fluctuating blood sugar levels and immune problems.

Excess estrogen in the blood caused by chronic cortisol elevations can result in hypothyroid symptoms by decreasing levels of active T3.

Adrenal insufficiency can also result in hypothyroid symptoms without affecting the thyroid itself.

Hope it helps

The thing is if you take the thyroxine you will be shutting down your thyroid just like injecting test shuts down your HPTA. Then there will be a long recovery period and your thyroid could be worse aterwards. Thyroxine is HRT. It's not a temporary thing. You must decide if you want to try to fix your thyroid, or go onto thyroid hormone replacement long term.

Any idea what could be the cause of your thyroid problem at such a young age? That's if you actually have a thyroid problem. Your TSH was still ok a few months ago. This could be a once off bad test.

@Morning: I truly appreciate the help brother and I know you meant it in the best way possible! Thing is my thyroid is limping because I used T3 recently. On my first cycle it was @80mcg for the last six weeks, then PCT for 5 weeks including Thyroid PCT, 5 weeks off, then onto the T3 again for my second cycle. 50mcg for like 10 weeks. Again thyroid PCT afterwards.

@MA: I dunno hey tbh. Thought about exactly that. But it is really important for me to diet properly right now before I get back to SA. Took my first tab of Thyroxine this morning and damn I was hungry today!! Haven't felt anything like it for very long. My mind is not made up though and open to all suggestions and speeches.

Add: I agree that one of the two tests are bull because there is no way my thyroid has gotten that much worse in such a short time frame. I strongly doubt it got worse at all!

Sounds like you're risking screwing up your thyroid so you can look a bit better for one short Summer. Just as long as you don't end up regretting it. At 23/24 you feel bulletproof bro, but it doesn't take much to change that.

If you still haven't recovered from using T3 by now, then what do you think will happen when you use T4 for a few months? Just be careful.

Pyro, I'm with MA. don't take the T4 or anything else that's going to stress your thyroid further. Get it sorted first then move forward. If someone’s lh and test levels that were messed you wouldn’t advise him to start another cycle, would you?

Out of curiosity, when did you finish your last T3 cycle? There’s some evidence that suggests that 2-5 weeks is sufficient for the thyroid to recover after T3 usage is stopped.

My last day of T3 was at the end of march.

I am thinking that I can take the Thyroxine for now to help the keto and pump the thyroid full of Thyroid PCT meds at the same time. Thanx for all the opinions guys appreciate it! Don´t be afraid to speak your mind please.

Pyroclasm wrote: pump the thyroid full of Thyroid PCT meds at the same time.

Thyroxine is not a thyroid PCT med. It is T4 to replace your own, and will shut down thyroid production completely just like taking T3. Exactly the same thing as someone with low testosterone problems post cycle going on TRT or on another cycle.

What about a second opinion..... with a different Doc ?

Muscleaddict wrote:

Pyroclasm wrote: pump the thyroid full of Thyroid PCT meds at the same time.

Thyroxine is not a thyroid PCT med. It is T4 to replace your own, and will shut down thyroid production completely just like taking T3. Exactly the same thing as someone with low testosterone problems post cycle going on TRT or on another cycle.

I don´t mean the Thyroxine as the PCT meds I mean taking Selenium and the product that Heretic was talking about?

@Mike: I am definately going to do that! This dude is an idiot I think.

You haven't thought this through bud. Does taking PCT while on cycle help your HPTA? Same thing. If you screwed up your thyroid by using T3 how is taking T4 going to do anything but make it worse. Ok that's my last comment.

New blood test results are in. For some background, I posted the test results from last year's bloods. The reference range is posted after the units. Test conducted at 7am, fasted.
1) First test done with GP in May 2013
2) Second test done with Endo in Sept 2013
3) New test results from April 2014

Regarding my thyroid, since test number 2 I took T3 up to the end of November (3 months), and then commenced thyroid PCT which consisted of two months of Solal´s Thyroid Support and sellenium (which makes me naar), as well as intense weight training and high calories. Since february I dropped calories again and started Keto and FFF. I have dropped 4% bodyfat since the start February, and I am extremely hungry if I don`t take the FFF.

TSH Basal
1) 4,04 µIU/ml 0,27 – 4,2
2) 6,4 µIU/ml 0,1 - 2,5
3) 4,82 µIU/ml 0,27 – 4,2

This time the doc did free T3 and T4
Free T3: 3,96 pmol/L 3,07-6,76
Free T4: 20,2 pmol/L 11,6 - 25,8

Calcium (something to worry about when on a ketogenic diet)
1) No old measurement
2) 2,3 mmol/L 2,5 - 2,7
3) 2,51 mmol/L 2,13 - 2,56

I told the doc that I am very insulin resistant. She needs a test as prove in order to write a prescription.

Blood Sugar: 4,2 mmol/L 3,5 - 5,5
Serum Blood Sugar: 1,7 mmol/L 3,3 - 6,9 (Obvious cock up)
HBA1c: 5,5 % up to 6,4
HBA1c: 36.6 mmol/mol No reference given

Those thyroid test results are quite baffling but it goes to show that the doc should have tested free T3 and T4 last time like we said before.

What did the doc say about why your TSH is so high but others in the normal range? Seems like your body is either not responding to the levels of T3 and T4 in your blood even though they seem normal, or your pituitary is somehow resistant to the signal from TSH. Get a good endo to check this out. Very odd.

Thanx MA. I agree I am also a bit clueless but not as clueless as the GP. Had ourselves a little fight about why I don´t want to go on T3 inspite the German Health Guidelines clearly stating that I should. She did mention the fact that there is a danger that my thyroid could become enlarged due to meeting the demands of the body. Any thoughts? What did you think about my blood sugar tests?

Guys if you have something that can add value then you are more than welcome to share your ideas. This is not a moderator only thread and I think that with more views you can form a better rounded picture.

I've only ever bothered looking at the regular blood sugar test and as you know 4 is dead normal. Don't know about the other one. What makes you say you are insulin resistant? There is data showing that keto diets can both improve and worsen insulin sensitivity in different people, and you spend quite a lot of time on keto. Possibly to do with that? Unless one is type 1 diabetic insulin resistance is usually diet related.

The doc must know what they're saying about your pituitary. Producing too much TSH can't be good in the long run, but it's not like your TSH is sky high so there can't be any immediate risks to you. I suggest you do some in depth research on how the hypothalamic–pituitary–thyroid axis works because you might just be able to figure this out before the docs do.

FFF might be interfering with the test results as well since we don't know exactly what the ingredients do.

I'll try to find some info on this as well when I have some time as it is pretty interesting and I'm sure we'll see this again.

Insulin resistance is something coming since my childhood. I did a test a couple of years before I knew what keto was and an hour after eating three slices of wholewheat bread my insulin was 30.5 compared to the normal 10. My doc freaked out. This time the blood sugar was tested fasted. I think it´s kinda funny seeing as I told the woman that I am not a diabetic but just insulin resistant and then she doesn`t even measure my insulin levelsd if she did it has been two weeks since I ate a carb. lol

Fark! Carbs definitely do not like you. Low carb, high fat diet is the way to go then for you I guess.

Pyro this should ring some bells for you as it talks about high cortisol and insulin resistance being linked to hypothyroidism:

5 Thyroid Patterns That Won’t Show Up On Standard Lab Tests


Hypothyroidism caused by pituitary dysfunction

This pattern is caused by elevated cortisol, which is in turn caused by active infection, blood sugar imbalances, chronic stress, pregnancy, hypoglycemia or insulin resistance. These stressors fatigue the pituitary gland at the base of the brain so that it can no longer signal the thyroid to release enough thyroid hormone. There may be nothing wrong with the thyroid gland itself. The pituitary isn’t sending it the right messages.

With this pattern, you’ll have hypothyroid symptoms and a TSH below the functional range (1.8 – 3.0) but within the standard range (0.5 – 5.0). The T4 will be low in the functional range (and possibly the lab range too).

Under-conversion of T4 to T3

T4 is the inactive form of thyroid hormone. It must be converted to T3 before the body can use it. More than 90% of thyroid hormone produced is T4.

This common pattern is caused by inflammation and elevated cortisol levels. T4 to T3 conversion happens in cell membranes. Inflammatory cytokines damage cell membranes and impair the body’s ability to convert T4 to T3. High cortisol also suppresses the conversion of T4 to T3.

With this pattern you’ll have hypothyroid symptoms, but your TSH and T4 will be normal. If you have your T3 tested, which it rarely is in conventional settings, it will be low.

Hypothyroidism caused by elevated TBG

Thyroid binding globulin (TBG) is the protein that transports thyroid hormone through the blood. When thyroid hormone is bound to TBG, it is inactive and unavailable to the tissues. When TBG levels are high, levels of unbound (free) thyroid hormone will be low, leading to hypothyroid symptoms.

With this pattern, TSH and T4 will be normal. If tested, T3 will be low, and T3 uptake and TBG will be high.

Elevated TBG is caused by high estrogen levels, which are often often associated with birth control pills or estrogen replacement (i.e. Premarin or estrogen creams). To treat this pattern, excess estrogen must be cleared from the body.

Hypothyroidism caused by decreased TBG

This is the mirror image of the pattern above. When TBG levels are low, levels of free thyroid hormone will be high. You might think this would cause hyperthyroid symptoms. But too much free thyroid hormone in the bloodstream causes the cells to develop resistance to it. So, even though there’s more than enough thyroid hormone, the cells can’t use it and you’ll have hypothyroid – not hyperthyroid – symptoms.

With this pattern, TSH and T4 will be normal. If tested, T3 will be high, and T3 uptake and TBG will be low.

Decreased TBG is caused by high testosterone levels. In women, it is commonly associated with PCOS and insulin resistance. Reversing insulin resistance and restoring blood sugar balance is the key to treating this pattern.

Thyroid resistance

In this pattern, both the thyroid and pituitary glands are functioning normally, but the hormones aren’t getting into the cells where they’re needed. This causes hypothyroid symptoms.

Note that all lab test markers will be normal in this pattern, because we don’t have a way to test the function of cellular receptors directly.

Thyroid resistance is usually caused by chronic stress and high cortisol levels. It can also be caused by high homocysteine and genetic factors.
Conclusion

The five patterns above are only a partial list. Several others also cause hypothyroid symptoms and don’t show up on standard lab tests. If you have hypothyroid symptoms, but your lab tests are normal, it’s likely you have one of them.

Not only do these patterns fail to show up on standard lab work, they don’t respond well to conventional thyroid hormone replacement. If your body can’t convert T4 to T3, or you have too much thyroid binding protein, or your cells are resistant, it doesn’t matter how much T4 you take; you won’t be able to use it.

chriskresser.com/5-thyroid-patterns-that...n-standard-lab-tests

Thanx for the effort bro.

If you dont +1 him for the effort, i am going to

Pyro you've said that your cortisol has consistently tested high over after quite a few blood tests. High cortisol causes receptors in target tissues to no longer respond properly to the signal from thyroid hormones. Chronically elevated cortisol also causes insulin resistance. Might be more than a coincidence that you've had issues with all 3.

O okay now I see what you mean! I didn't understand what you were saying because none of those scenarios have elevated TSH levels. But now I get it.